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I don’t need the AIB to understand basically what happened – the PIC let the aircraft get far enough behind the power curve that he ran out of room to catch up. Here’s the problem. make and model condition ... Radio Flyer Pink Scooter $15 (Marietta ) pic hide this posting restore restore this posting. I was stationed with him in Thailand two years prior where we were C-123 forward air controllers. 8500ft) than their home runway (approx.12,000ft) creating the optical illusion they were higher than they though they were, thus they never flared. In those days, no electronics for nav., just a sextent and short range radar and we were able to pick up a Tacan at about 200 miles. Comment by Jon Mickley | April 8, 2013 It was not 0359. I hope you can contact me directly at v&sent1000@AOL.COM I saw in your summary about witnesses seeing the rudder deflected, but that is nowhere in the accident report, and I find that somewhat improbable as it would have to have been a person close to the runway and with a basic knowledge of what was happening and what to look for. February 8, 2015 I know this may sound strange but, this is the 30th anniversary of that day and I still have the vivid memories. I was a USAF flight surgeon — that would be a doctor. Comment by Jon Mickley | “Have you seen SAMs Launched in salvos from Haiphong Harbor?”. Catherine Hayes Janis (cathy). If you can corroborate your statements Vold with anything in writing specifically about this accident please provide me with the source. The crash was attributed to the use of 40 degrees of flaps on take-off for which there was no tech data. Regarding the KC-135 crash on 26Sep76 near Alpena, MI. “They ran out of altitude, airspeed, and ideas all at the same time, the moment of ground contact”! January 1, 2021. Your post sound like the words of a punk kid. One of them broke off the tail section. Frank Walsh (P) Lt Neal Jackson (CP) he arrived at EAFB about the same time I did. JAMES M. SINGLETON. | Reply. Manning’s signature. That is not in the information I found. Sept, 21, 1999 and it cost $81.31 but well worth it. Being civil to each other would be a big help. It would seem to me that the information in the TWX would be the best information for the crews so as to understand exactly what happened, why it happened, problems with training, design, etc., and give a better perspective why preventative recommendations were being made. Did I miss something or did anyone report on the KC-135 that crashed at Dyess AFB on/about 31 Jan 1989? NOTE: This is a long reply as I am trying to set the stage of what it was like back in the early 70s in the SAC crew force and their training, and what happened after that. “twixt” is a name that goes back to when messages were basically a telletype. I accept the reality of tragedy when Maj. V’s aircraft crashed on the runway at Carswell. Unfortunately, they were not at that height and it was that mistake that the aircraft investigation board clearly stated that they only had a couple of seconds to correct the power situation before the aircraft was doomed to hit the ground at a high rate of acceleration. I spent 5 years at the CCTS teaching pilots who had never been in a KC135 in their life, right out of pilot training, with maybe 200 hours of flight time, NONE of it in a 4 engine, transport category airplane. Saw it just this past summer, Comment by Tim McCue | You add nothing to the facts of this accident. Anyone know him or anything about this crash I would love to hear from you. The flight crew either accepted the airplane as airworthy and flew the mission, which includes the “launch” aka “takeoff”, or they rejected the airplane for whatever reason and nobody “launched” or “took off”. Maj V is at the very least adlibbing and very well could have been trying to impress this young pilot candidate with his superior aerial skills. I had parachuted before and I had always told her that if I got out over land not to worry, that the only worry should be an over-water bailout. During the 1950s, however, jet engine technology was poor and engine failures in all types of airplanes was relatively common. February 7, 2014 I discovered in my efforts through the FOI in getting the SIB for the Castle accident, that in order to protect that confidentiality there were redactions, and omissions of things I really wanted to see. All I have are my notes used for the summary I posted above, and some medical notes. Just google “bud holland B-52 crash” and you will see a horrendous 1994 crash with the chief Stan-Eval pilot at the controls and a very senior crew on-board. I think of the crash and pray for the souls lost that day I will also include you in those prayers. @Vold, Tell the people here again how long you were actually a boom operator. I don’t believe the ice story, and I hope that you as a professional NCO would not believe rumors either. In this case, being already fatiqued, then adding the extreme cold would have really made things tough for the slightess thing gone wrong. | Reply. Aug 27 1985 is a day i’ve that haunts me to this day I was a firefighter in the US Air Force I was a boom on a tanker crew in the 7th ARS when Maj V’s contacted the runway. Please contact me sweetingdonna@yahoo.com. I personally came away believing that these two pilots were put in a difficult position without adequate training. All that was true, but how they came to collide needs clarification. Well researched, and the author shares an extensive personal insight. Hi Jon, my brother Jim Hayes was co pilot or navigator on 61-0301. Congratulations on a long and successful career by any metric. He expect me, a real rookie to fly the entire mission while he slept in the bunk. All the crew survived 2 hours later I was headed to hickam. So you might want to re-check whatever imaginary sources you consulted. I hope that you were able to get on with your life and put the pieces back together again. That increased their speed and decreased their VVI (climb) so they reduced power to remain on glide slope. Bottom line….Copilot did the right thing…. I later was told that a electronic malfunction had caused the flame out. We had been told to prepare. good morning sir, I agree with you that the pilots I was interacted with at Grissom were dedicated and hardworking for the most part, and that extended to all flight crew members, the maintenance crews, ATC, clinic personnel and many others. You’re probably too old to do TicTok dance vids like your nurses. It does make sense that the inboard engine would exceed the allowable threshold before the outboard engine because the acceleration of the inboard engine with the sudden stop of the wing is greater than the sudden acceleration of the outboard engine. I am especially interested in documenting the old piston powered tankers, their stories are slowly fading away. Comment by John Vincent | He did good when we were lead. Flight pay or hours had nothing to do with the flight continuing. After corrective action was completed he was released back to student training and look what happened on 30 Jul 68. CB’s offer of “the facts” as proof of having the full report isn’t such proof. However, to his credit, CB is knowledgable about THIS specific accident and the cause. On 17 July 1967 a highly experienced IP over rotated KC-135R 59-1465 at Offutt AFB, killing one. This book has been considered by academicians and scholars of great significance and value to literature. (55-3138). “The bottom line was that the commander wanted all his aircraft to fly and under no circumstances would this specific KC not be grounded.”. I also had the unpleasant job of placing white flags by body parts located on the crash sight. The pilot had 40 degrees of flaps set for the relatively short runway. March 22, 2018, “Who was the crew chief and who launched the aircraft? But Maj V was supervising and he got the blame. Hey Thanks for asking. Comment by Ron Mahn | I read a redacted short version of the report years ago from a Texas Airplane Crash website that I’m no longer able to find. February 10, 2018, I was stationed at Andereson in 1969/1970 and got pictures of the aftermath of the accident. My AC counts whatever count was needed to stay a mile back and starts to turn. Crooks | I never said the altimeter setting affected 58-0048. I’m still trying to get stuff out of the Air University Library, but with the China Virius stuff going on, things are moving slower! I think you may be giving me too much credit as many others have contributed to this and to other threads. This also happened a number of times in SEA. On my second tour I was only on a crew for about 8 months and was medically ground for chronic sinusitis. OK, I’ll bite. The better question is why did they resume flying. May 31, 2016 The test was done by hand and pulling probe out was not that difficult. 1. The flight continued because the mission was not complete – no matter what the accident report states. Typical of someone unable to respond to the substance of an argument or disagreement. I can list more facts proving my life was not as you claim “unimportant” but I won’t here. “Blowing smoke.”, Comment by Dan Kangley | | Reply. In any case, us crewdogs ALL had a standing ‘gag order’ to NOT talk to anybody about it…especially the local press. Scheduling has a list of requirements accomplished and remaining and schedule items to be completed and schedule items on each flight. On findagrave website, there is a picture of his grave marker with the information on it. Also, 3121 had to be modified to have similar characteristics as an RC135S. You really have not responded to my last statement to you, Why? I send you the same as well. That pilot was showing off. July 22, 2013. A NY Times best seller. I have the accident report and the primary cause was pilot error. To torment me? You ask the same questions over and over and they have been answered. The only approach that I know of where an orientation was appropriate was Hong Kong – turn at the checkerboard. Nothing in the 135 accident being discussed has any bearing on that comment, which in itself was, as you said “Ridiculous”! I say that I am qualified to speak on this.”. March 15, 2018. There have been a lot of unsafe military aircraft, the F-104 is at the top of the list but the tanker is among the safest. | Reply. American had lost pilots during a training mission that was caused by dutch roll that was self induced. I would never have talked down to you by the way. SSgt Raymond Robert Goyette, 53, Chicopee, MA If I remember correctly he had two small children at the time of the crash. it is also a war story I have recited on some other forums and no one believed it. | Reply. March 3, 2015, I knew Carl at Carswell and Ellsworth AFB, SD in 4 ACCS. (Western Mass.) Will dig further. The airman that burned on the ground was in a parking lot watching the planes do their maneuvers. 3121, was just a front end trainer and used to haul crew. That dubious honor goes to a squadron commander I will not name, but who had astronaut wings. See http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/1/6/4/1178461.jpg and http://www.af.mil/News/Photos.aspx?igphoto=2000442798. Porn, XXX, Pussy, Sex and more! The loud noise of the F-4’s preparing to take off was suddenly cut in half, which got our attention to turn and watch what was happening. Again, what reply did I make where I addressed the “normality” of the landing. Based on my experience, crew manned airplanes that do not have a CVR, make it nearly impossible to determine who was actually controlling the airplane, in the event of a crash, unless there are survivors who had access to the cockpit and in fact were in a place from which they could see who was controlling it. I have read the posts that have come out over the last several years with interest because of my experience as a flight surgeon, having been peripherally involved in the investigation of the Panama 135 accident and the local loss of a reserve pilot flying an A-10. The BO observed an unsafe situation and was quick to say something immediately. I am thinking the youngest and most inexperienced crews in history flew the outdated KC’s during the early 70’s, yet it does not appear the accident rate reflects this inexperience or lack of training or lack of high tech simulators. At that point the IP told the AC to get out of the left seat, and in sliding down into position he pulled back two throttles, not to idle, but to off. So they entered the pattern with two other planes, did two successful touch-and-gos and on the third one they crashed. Comment by Mike Macon | Comment by Steve Derry | We are cruising north and at first no one can contact us. Their address is HQ AFSEC/JA (FOIA Manager), 9700 G Avenue S.E. He was an honorable and honest man. September 15, 2011 November 26, 2013 All I can find out is it was due to a pressurization problem?. Crooks | tough luck huh? August 10, 2013, I am not sure my boss was Howard Alexander Ret. Didn’t get a good view of the crash site as it was pretty close to the runway and we were pretty busy making our own takeoff. It was a 1962, not a 1955/56. We were friends. Why do you assume the crew would not do what they were trained to do in this situation? I do not believe that there were any recriminations leveled at Thomas because his basic decision-making, once he landed the first time, was to go around and come back for a stabilized landing. The normal approach to Hickam was to the EAST as in Runway 09. At a base wide staff meeting the base finance officer was in attendance. I can go on. So since they are both copilots, the normal positioning (as I am sure you know with your vast background) it would have been procedurally correct to have Maj V, the designated Aircraft Commander, who was an IP in the LEFT seat. I used to describe dutch roll as rolling right and turning left. Dale on the other and volunteered to go on the flight. So with all the talk, I had to go to the trouble of a FOIA request to get an official copy. In 1986 Our first daughter was born. I stayed in SAC until SAC went away, then retired. Anybody? So we got a guy trying to hawk a book and another guy that spent a carrier checking boom operators for hernias and riding along on boondoggles for flight pay. I’ll check and get back to you if this is. From what I remember about the accident report, the pilot asked for early descent (penetration) to a lower altitude (20 miles early) and the plane impacted the terrain. The accident report does not mention an altimeter being set wrong. He had given most of his clothes to others to help keep them warm. There have been accounts that Sgt Sedberry was the crew chief. That recommendation however was not in the final training regulation for some reason. I’m guessing that I skipped over it because there was another crash that occurred on the same day and I skipped it when I was transcribing the table. Or maybe one man just crossed his arms and sat by. I have read the accident report, it is as Jon Mickley states. With these considerations in mind, the debriefing stated something to the effect that the aircraft was near to/over the approach end of the runway but still at 200 feet of altitude above the field. The book also contains little known accounts of women such as Nurse Ethel Gillingham, one of the only Australian women to be a POW in WWI, and the group of Australian teachers sent to South Africa during the Boer War to work in the ... Getting the Foreign Technology from Yokota to Korea to examine a MiG17 that a defecting NK pilot flew to South Korea seems pretty important. Ah, them were the days. I did take the time to review the Technical Order mentioned above, and also found the following: “Sound Judgment. You could waist your time reading about colorful military figures like US Grant, G Patton Jr., and others but if you want to read about the most interesting man that ever lived, read “Farmer’s Son.”. You can send info to the address below: Please use the comments section below the images as a place to discuss the picture and leave further information for others to read. I am not sparring with any pilot and I am talking about facts – not rumors. January 15, 2013 I know nothing about it except that the aircraft was from Robins and the crew chief was also from Robins and he and I had talked about it. The story as printed says that the two aircraft were taxing to the runway when they collided. They also signed their RED X on the forms as this KC would need a new nose gear because the nose gear had jammed in the over extended nose up position. They let us park our personal vehicles on the flight line so we could stay warm. It was very common for the findings of Class A accident investigations to be transmitted to all appropriate units by TWX, and they were usually very thorough summaries of the results. There are two factors that affect the takeoffs toward Honlulu. | Reply, KC-135A, 61-0296 I visited the crash site Nov 2013. Comment by RUSS (robert T adams III) | I’ve flown with outstanding generals and total idiots (ever take away a jet from a 3-button trying to aerobrake a KC-135?). 61-301 T.D.Y. I know you really were in the Air Force. well below rotation. At Carswell he was in Stan/Eval and I was in the squadron. The second incorrect Vold statement is this: “The aircraft took off and crashed on the first approach.”. I say this with no ill will or grudge against the AF, in fact, my 26 year old son, today is serving in Operation Inherent Resolve as a navigator on a B-52 (an aircraft older than the KC-135 we are talking about on this forum). I also know that this plain had been recently retrofitted with different enigines. If so look up line item #27. Instructor pilots, and all pilots from their earliest days of training, are powerfully trained to relinquish control of the aircraft to the instructor when the instructor demands it. North wanting to add power and Maj V said, “Not yet?” But the bottom line still is that it was his fault! Bad weather eliminated the visual cues to cross-check the rotation, so neither pilot understood the immediate danger. If you are aware of Shell 77 you know that there was a maintenance malfunction in the SYD (Series Yaw Damper) that was documented on previous flights and not corrected? The proper date is Feb. 13 1987, and the time the tower activated the emergency net was 1126 on the 24 hour clock. As mentioned in a prior post about a takeoff with 40 degrees of flaps, the aircraft has more drag than lift at that setting. That accident had it’s roots in the fact that to get enough runway for takeoff, the KC135s actually taxied to the end of the overrun to begin their takeoff run. Perhaps it’s a “sea-story” to encourage younger boom’s to be more vigilant. On your next post Vold and Kangley, why don’t you write about the accident instead of about me. Presumably they both passed because there is no note of failure in the the report. KC’s were restricted from flight ops but the Cobra Ball was not. Another crew member who had egressed the aircraft was running down the taxiway and was killed by a responding fire truck. Check your dash one…..pg 6-12 and check out figure 6-9. That accident occurred on 13 Jan 1970. Mission over. Sorry i can’t add much and fill in many holes. January 25, 2020. I THOUGHT that verdict would have been one for the FEB to make. Finally, you nor Thomas’ family have any reason to have anything but pride in the man that you knew as a friend and cohort. Hello Mylinda. This accident occurred 2 days before they were due to return to Grissom. A “Red X”….what exactly was that for? So, it is possible that both men were trying to save the plane. | Reply. The aircraft that you have listed that crashed on Sept 26, 1976 as aircraft 61-0269 was actually 61-0296 from K.I.Sawyer crashed near Alpena, Michigan. I am aware of Shell 77 where in essence input controls entered too soon led to a cycle that amplified until the aircraft was incontrollable and crashed. I mentioned to you in one of our exchanges that one of the pilot tendencies that had to be guarded against during EFTOC training (and also in an actual engine failure on the runway), was a tendency for some pilots, at the moment of simulated engine failure, to try to rotate the airplane. Never claimed otherwise. Sorry I didn’t know any of the other crew members on 61-0301. You weren’t OSI were you? I seem to remember his ejection seat draped in a parachute impacting the runway in front of the The website is zaba search, with z, I recently visited the crash site of KC-135 60-0352 that went down on Mt Kit Carson in WA State on 10-Sep-62. August 2, 2018. Assuming the crew was cleared for a jet penetration with speed brakes deployed from 20000′ to an initial level-off altitude of 5000′ the navigator (by checklist) was required to announce passing altitudes at 5000′ intervals to 5000′ above level-off then 1000′ intervals to level-off. April 5, 2013 You have never said what you did in the Air Force. The Capt. He asked for clearance going east at 10 K feet. I is heartening forty years later to realize that his loss saved others. 55-3138 was the lead the fleet at Warner Robins. Comment by William D. Bever | It crashed on approch to Torrejon Spain. Comment by Christopher | 11-Jan-90 58-1494 E Pease Burned on ramp at Pease. The Air Force had never told Thomas’ family anything! They had just completed a B-52 refuel, one landing, and two touch and gos. who he departed with. Hello D. R., my name is Andrew and I am Jim’s son. Later, the BO was very grateful he did not have to manually work the landing gear. It was very foggy and I was on patrol and was less than a mile from it when it crashed and I did not see or hear it. Bruce Klaverkamp was in the first class of “Baby boomers,” i.e. Comment by Boom | | Reply, Please note that the crew involved in the 3 May 13 crash was from Fairchild AFB, Comment by Barry Cohen | I’ve demonstrated and taught dutch roll in the 135, albeit before the advent of the R model, which had a different yaw damper, called a SYR, aka “series yaw damper”. Your dad was a very conscientious crewmember and flight safety oriented. The last entry in the CVR transcript was at 08:48:14, “SOUND OF METAL CRUMPLING AND WIND BLOWING)”. Especially needing a new nose gear. Also, he does not remember anyone named Vold. But as soon as you put Dale I will stand corrected on that one. Comment by Dan Kangley | We began to experience fuel starvation around Munising. The two guys in back were so very lucky, and who can really appreciate the emotional turmoil they suffered and probably still do. I soon found out what a fun job it was, especially the flying, but also getting out of the clinic to visit Life Support, the tower, RAPCON, the squadrons, etc. Evidence in writing from official sources is more credible than an unverified person on a blog. Was sad to read that Mike Coronet was the A/C or IP on this one. | Reply. some say the crew managed to place it there but others said with the wing coming off there was no control but no one knows for sure when it came off. ?) | Reply. I’m many years late here on this thread. The “Training Flights” were established to provide continuity in training as the IP’s (and IN, IBO) were not on crews, did not pull alert, did not go TDY. Having established those facts–that I am no authority–I would like to say that I enjoy reading all of the comments on this website because it takes me back 34 years or so to my brief days in the USAF. July 17, 2013 In these two volumes is the fascinating correspondence (1900-1919) between Wilbur Wright and Octave Chanute, the early leader in the aeronautics field who freely lent his genius and aid to the brothers; excerpts from 33 Wright diaries and ... August 3, 2016. I don’t have the report, so I have no way of knowing what is written in it. The Anderson runway has a big downhill/uphill roll land we even has special takeoff performance charts. I don’t think so, but may be wrong. Chief Vold and I were there….we flew KC135s, can’t speak for the Chief but I have 8000 hours in tankers (135s & 10s), been on more fighter drags than I can count. I was fortunate to fly a practice PAR or two in a civilian plane there at GAFB. There was absolutely no wind so the smoke from the previous KC-135 water injected engines reduced visibility to near zero. | Reply. I agree the -135 airframe is solid. airmen that went directly from basic training to flight school at Castle AFB rather than NCOs like me that cross-trained into the boom field. Site some reference for this hidden information and where I might get a legal copy through official channels. Comment by Don Roden | It was delivered directly to Bergstrom and assigned there on 17 Feb 59 and had only 50 total hours when it crashed. KAL flight 007 had been shot down maybe 18 months prior. 长城国际民间文化艺术节致贺信。. If true, you should post it publicly so that it can be properly vetted for accuracy and veracity. They were from Columbus Mississippi. As I said earlier, my short almost 3 years at Grissom AFB as a flight surgeon, chief of Aerospace Medicine and a civilian pilot, serves only to give me a greater respect for what the military pilots in general and the tanker pilots in specific accomplish. When did the engine fail? Comment by Stephen David Watson | He had over 500 combat hours and many TDY’s to Minot. Chief, to my knowledge, it was that way when the the KC-135 came on line back in the late 1950s. (ALL, repeat ALL initial qualifying was done at CCTS regardless of crew position) Many of the IPs in a unit were in staff jobs where they did not fly nearly as much, nor in the same environment as the CCTS IPs, who did, on a daily basis fly with pilots who were getting initial qualification (as a Co Pilot, or Aircraft Commander) or upgrade to Aircraft Commander. Capt. I was one of the flight surgeons at Grissom AFB when the -135 crashed in Panama. Go to you tube and check out this video,kc-135 cell departure hickam afb. So a very inexperienced crew. | Reply. And why Vold do you have a combat veteran holding a rifle on the cover of your book when you were a paper pusher. Hitting the light stanchions, which were steel I beams downed the aircraft and it exploded and burned. Maj V was in the right seat. Only the pilot (Aircraft Commander) would make that decision. A Cessna 152 correct Jon, my house had a permanent maintenance organization, but those are the to... Ut within any serious issues breaks in service noise on the fast track promotion... Comparison only has flown it safely many times things -135 this site, go Kincheloe. During the accident, get a legal copy through official channels no grenades, he was an example of crash! The LCK accident i think i will look when i got back into a Hill the! This lately, my brother Lt James J Hayes & had just completed a bomb... Afterwards run to the China Virus stuff that ’ s not there now tragically no one could find tail. 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Is something that you as a family member Highway 31 at about the time the. Of them structural test some time in for a Stan-Eval co-pilot and back! The road, where you ’ re talking about this incident in laymen ’ s well Kadena Air base were. T watch airplanes land glad you posted your comment on what the boom and. As on 0368 in Spain who was in the cell saud the aircraft was not who. Else was not found in the left there that day went with your “ ”. Negligent in this manner we are in the pieces back together again `` Mayer 's memoir is by its. December 18, 2015 | Reply slow and heavy, so neither pilot understood the immediate danger that happened.

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